Does Casting Haste Again Prevent the Stunned Turn
Thread: Haste is OP
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2014-11-22,03:22 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #1
Ogre in the Playground
Haste is OP Haste is OP... But only if you cast it on your enemies.
Unless your target is immune to magic, you can cast Haste on them and immediately end the spell to prevent them from moving or taking actions on their turns. With enough spell slots you can keep an enemy stunned while your friends beat it to death with sticks. As long as you have Haste and a few spell slots, you can kill anything with ease.
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2014-11-22,03:25 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #2
Banned
Re: Haste is OP Nope, specifies willing. I thought of it too, but a lot of beneficial spells have the 'willing' problem with them. Comboing it with suggestion 'let him cast haste on you' might work for a round though. And since it specifies 'after the end of their next turn' you can cancel your concentration at the start of the enemy's turn to make him lose two.
Originally Posted by Giant2005 
Haste is OP... But only if you cast it on your enemies.
Unless your target is immune to magic, you can cast Haste on them and immediately end the spell to prevent them from moving or taking actions on their turns. With enough spell slots you can keep an enemy stunned while your friends beat it to death with sticks. As long as you have Haste and a few spell slots, you can kill anything with ease.Last edited by Eslin; 2014-11-22 at 03:26 AM.
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2014-11-22,03:30 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #3
Ogre in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP Boo to the willing clause!
That is a good idea comboing it with Suggestion.
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2014-11-22,05:43 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #4
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP So it will probably work once per encounter...
Screw these guys, yo BBEG I'm switching sides... Here is some Haste!
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2014-11-22,05:49 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #5
Banned
Re: Haste is OP You could always set up a prearranged hostility agreement with the party. The bad guys will think that you've switched sides and they'll be willing to let you buff them.
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2014-11-22,05:59 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #6
Banned
Re: Haste is OP You'd have to be pretty good actors, anything with a decent insight score would be able to work out something was up unless the parties involved had good deception. It's sounds like it might work sometimes, but doesn't sound very reliable - I'd honestly just go with suggestion if you can. Originally Posted by Shadow You could always set up a prearranged hostility agreement with the party. The bad guys will think that you've switched sides and they'll be willing to let you buff them.
Last edited by Eslin; 2014-11-22 at 05:59 AM.
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2014-11-22,06:02 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #7
Banned
Re: Haste is OP No, because you wouldn't be acting. You would really be hostile, by casting friends on one of them first. Originally Posted by Eslin You'd have to be pretty good actors, anything with a decent insight score would be able to work out something was up unless the parties involved had good deception. It's sounds like it might work sometimes, but doesn't sound very reliable - I'd honestly just go with suggestion if you can.
Are you beginning to see how ridiculous this argument is?
Last edited by Shadow; 2014-11-22 at 06:06 AM.
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2014-11-22,06:08 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #8
Banned
Re: Haste is OP Yes, but that doesn't matter. Whether you're actually hostile to your party or not isn't the deciding factor for if your enemy lets you cast haste on it, whether the creature believes the scenario enough that it thinks you actually are going to help it is. There aren't a huge amount of scenarios in which 'hey I'm on your side now, let me come over and cast a spell on you' is a viable tactic, regardless of whether they believe you're friends with your party or not. Originally Posted by Shadow No, because you wouldn't be acting. You would really be hostile, by casting friends on one of them first.
Edit: Noticed your edit.
What argument? Convincing a creature you're on its side so it'll let you haste it could work, but it'll be very heavily dependent on creature and scenario - I can't see many cases in which it would work, but I suppose if you're quite charismatic or fighting a troll or there's some reason it thinks you're its friend you've got a chance. Originally Posted by Shadow Are you beginning to see how ridiculous this argument is?
Last edited by Eslin; 2014-11-22 at 06:11 AM.
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2014-11-22,07:37 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #9
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP Really, switching sides and then backstabbing said side is one of the boldest tricks in the book. Originally Posted by Eslin Yes, but that doesn't matter. Whether you're actually hostile to your party or not isn't the deciding factor for if your enemy lets you cast haste on it, whether the creature believes the scenario enough that it thinks you actually are going to help it is. There aren't a huge amount of scenarios in which 'hey I'm on your side now, let me come over and cast a spell on you' is a viable tactic, regardless of whether they believe you're friends with your party or not.
Edit: Noticed your edit.
What argument? Convincing a creature you're on its side so it'll let you haste it could work, but it'll be very heavily dependent on creature and scenario - I can't see many cases in which it would work, but I suppose if you're quite charismatic or fighting a troll or there's some reason it thinks you're its friend you've got a chance.
Actually, from reputable sources, the book was able to be written because one of the writers pretended to betray the other writers to the publisher before taking over said publishing agency and then publishing the book with his friends... Totally legit and can totally confirm with science.
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2014-11-22,07:45 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #10
Banned
Re: Haste is OP It's bold, but it's also difficult to pull off on targets that aren't stupid. It can work, but often requires specific circumstances or lots of setup, so it isn't a general combat tactic. Originally Posted by Perseus Really, switching sides and then backstabbing said side is one of the boldest tricks in the book.
Actually, from reputable sources, the book was able to be written because one of the writers pretended to betray the other writers to the publisher before taking over said publishing agency and then publishing the book with his friends... Totally legit and can totally confirm with science.
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2014-11-22,08:20 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #11
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP My phone autocorrected oldest to boldest ... I'm not sure why since oldest is actually a word (I've had to fix oldest each time I typed it in this message...) Originally Posted by Eslin It's bold, but it's also difficult to pull off on targets that aren't stupid. It can work, but often requires specific circumstances or lots of setup, so it isn't a general combat tactic.
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2014-11-22,01:25 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #12
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP My phone does that sometimes. Rather annoying.
Anyways, given the willing clause you either have to make a skill check before the spell (at minimum) or already hit them with another spell and get it to stick. Considering suggestion and haste are (I think) both concentration spells the legality of that is questionable (like using hex to weaken a saving throw before tossing something like hold person on them).
It could be nifty still.
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2014-11-22,01:29 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #13
Dwarf in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP LOL. Delicious Shadow, well played. Originally Posted by Shadow You could always set up a prearranged hostility agreement with the party. The bad guys will think that you've switched sides and they'll be willing to let you buff them.
Dont forget, the enemy caster & co could have a similar agreement, not only to buff each other but also to haste-lock the PCs!
Last edited by McBars; 2014-11-22 at 01:32 PM.
Murderhobo with a Shotgun
Learn your rules, learn your rules, if you don't you'll be eaten in your sleep!
burn the munchkin, kill the min/maxer, purge the jediverse
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2014-11-22,01:45 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #14
Banned
Re: Haste is OP Again, that doesn't work. The haste caster's relationship with his allies, real or imagined, isn't the determining factor in regards to whether haste can be cast on something. The only thing that matters is whether the creature's willing, and there's no reason the PCs would be (unless they're very gullible). Originally Posted by McBars LOL. Delicious Shadow, well played.
Dont forget, the enemy caster & co could have a similar agreement, not only to buff each other but also to haste-lock the PCs!
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2014-11-22,01:53 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #15
Dwarf in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP But "Willing" isn't a defined game term. Originally Posted by Eslin Again, that doesn't work. The haste caster's relationship with his allies, real or imagined, isn't the determining factor in regards to whether haste can be cast on something. The only thing that matters is whether the creature's willing, and there's no reason the PCs would be (unless they're very gullible).
The enemies could be "willing" to attack you, and thus qualify for being haste-locked
Murderhobo with a Shotgun
Learn your rules, learn your rules, if you don't you'll be eaten in your sleep!
burn the munchkin, kill the min/maxer, purge the jediverse
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2014-11-22,01:55 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #16
Banned
Re: Haste is OP GOLD! Originally Posted by McBars But "Willing" isn't a defined game term.
The enemies could be "willing" to attack you, and thus qualify for being haste-locked
Why didn't I think of that one?
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2014-11-22,02:25 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #17
Ettin in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP LOL! I think I peed a little... Originally Posted by McBars But "Willing" isn't a defined game term.
The enemies could be "willing" to attack you, and thus qualify for being haste-locked
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2014-11-22,02:57 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #18
Pixie in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP Question about haste and extra attack. At level 5 does a hasted fighter/barbarian/paladin et al get 3 or 4 attacks?
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2014-11-22,03:01 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #19
Banned
Re: Haste is OP One weapon attack only, as explicitly stated in the spell decription. Not an extra attack action. Just one weapon attack. Originally Posted by deusflac Question about haste and extra attack. At level 5 does a hasted fighter/barbarian/paladin et al get 3 or 4 attacks?
So 3, not 4.
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2014-11-22,03:02 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #20
Banned
Re: Haste is OP Three attacks. Originally Posted by deusflac Question about haste and extra attack. At level 5 does a hasted fighter/barbarian/paladin et al get 3 or 4 attacks?
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2014-11-22,03:41 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #21
Firbolg in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP If you're going to cast Suggestion on an enemy you might as well suggest something that takes him out of the combat instead of having to use a second spell slot for Haste. If it's the BBEG himself, chances are he'll make the save against Suggestion anyway, especially if it's a solo creature, i.e. is legen, wait for it, dary.
Originally Posted by OgresAreCute "Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons fifth edition, where the DCs are made up and the rules don't matter."
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2014-11-22,11:02 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #22
Banned
Re: Haste is OP Without a game definition, the only party that matters is the creature being hasted - since its only that creature's state of mind that matters, they're free to decide whether they're willing or not just as they are whether they are hostile. Originally Posted by McBars But "Willing" isn't a defined game term.
The enemies could be "willing" to attack you, and thus qualify for being haste-locked
This whole analogy doesn't work, you've confused question and answer.
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2014-11-23,02:10 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #23
Dwarf in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP No I haven't. Besides, without a game definition, distinguishing between the 2 is of no consequence. Originally Posted by Eslin Without a game definition, the only party that matters is the creature being hasted - since its only that creature's state of mind that matters, they're free to decide whether they're willing or not just as they are whether they are hostile.
This whole analogy doesn't work, you've confused question and answer.
Unless there is no state of mind to speak of, a creature is willing to do (or not do) something, and thus can be hasted. Any spell caster of intelligence would recognize this and the obvious advantage granted by hasting his opponents. RAW legal maneuver.
Last edited by McBars; 2014-11-23 at 02:16 AM.
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2014-11-23,11:40 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #24
Dwarf in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP If you can manage to convince an enemy to let you cast a spell on it without resisting, why bother with haste? Just convince them some some more nasty spell is beneficial. Any enemy smart enough to know what a haste spell looks like while it is being cast is smart enough to know you can revoke it and screw them over.
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2014-11-23,09:20 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #25
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP Is party a defined game term? Originally Posted by Eslin Without a game definition, the only party that matters is the creature being hasted - since its only that creature's state of mind that matters, they're free to decide whether they're willing or not just as they are whether they are hostile.
This whole analogy doesn't work, you've confused question and answer.
I'm rolling my eyes way too much when these threads come up...
"If I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint threw a scimitar at me, they'd put me away..." - Dennis, aged 37 - Executive Officer of the Week, Anarcho-syndicalist commune, somewhere in Britain.
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2014-11-23,10:33 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #26
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP Wizard: Hello, friendly end boss guy! I'm willing to cast a Fly spell on you, are you willing to receive it?
Warboss: Orcs likes fly! Accept I do!
Wizard: There you go! Enjoy!
Warboss: Yaayyy! Smash da dragons!!!
Wizard, to Rogue: How high would you say that orc is right about now? 6d6 or 8d6?
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2014-11-23,11:18 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #27
Banned
Re: Haste is OP He's clearly willing to help you smash dragons, why would you drop him? Originally Posted by Kyutaru Wizard: Hello, friendly end boss guy! I'm willing to cast a Fly spell on you, are you willing to receive it?
Warboss: Orcs likes fly! Accept I do!
Wizard: There you go! Enjoy!
Warboss: Yaayyy! Smash da dragons!!!
Wizard, to Rogue: How high would you say that orc is right about now? 6d6 or 8d6?
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2014-11-24,09:05 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #28
Troll in the Playground
Re: Haste is OP Personally, I like the *splut* noise they make when they land. Originally Posted by Eslin He's clearly willing to help you smash dragons, why would you drop him?
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